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BeitragVerfasst am: Mi Jun 22, 2005 8:47 pm    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

warum haben sie die Air Can Piloten denn gegen die Boing Muster gestellt ?

Gruss Tigger
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Romeo.Mike
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BeitragVerfasst am: Mi Jun 22, 2005 9:03 pm    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

http://www.pilots.de/ubb/NonCGI/Forum1/HTML/003015.html

Dirk112 von pilots.de hat folgendes geschrieben:
Air Canada cancels jets
US$6B.1 Boeing order: Pilots vote against changes in labour deal with airline

Chris Sorensen
Financial Post
Air Canada's powerful pilots union has quashed the airline's plan to purchase 32 new, long-range Boeing aircraft in a deal that was estimated to be worth as much as US$6.1-billion.
The country's largest airline said it has notified Boeing Co. that it is cancelling its order for the new jets, which include 14 of Boeing's vaunted 787 "Dreamliners" and 18 Boeing 777s. The notification came because members of the Air Canada Pilots Association (ACPA) last week voted against ratifying a tentative labour pact that was to cover the operation of the state-of-the-art jets.

"We are naturally disappointed at having to cancel the widebody aircraft order," Montie Brewer, Air Canada chief executive, said in a statement released late Saturday. "But these aircraft can only be brought into our fleet on a predetermined economic basis."

Air Canada's long-range jet order, announced in late April, was intended to replace the carrier's ageing fleet of Boeing 767 wide-body jets and bolster its new business plan, which increasingly focuses on long-haul, point-to-point international flying. The purchase, which included options to buy up to 64 more jets, was contingent on a labour deal since it covered pay rates and working conditions related to the operation of the new aircraft.

A source in the pilots union said yesterday the tentative agreement was endorsed by union leaders because "it was the best we could get," but was ultimately turned down because members were angered by the tone of the negotiations. The source said pilots viewed the talks as an attempt by management to wring more concessions from employees after they contributed $1-billion in labour savings during Air Canada's restructuring last year.

He also said the pilots were angered by remarks made last week in New York by Robert Milton, chief executive of Air Canada parent ACE Aviation Holdings Inc. In a move some interpreted as a negotiating tactic to put pressure on the pilots, Mr. Milton told an investment conference the Boeing deal could be scrapped if the company was unsuccessful in reaching a deal with the union.

Although Air Canada would not specify the details of the failed labour deal over the planes, which was recommended by ACPA's leadership, an internal letter sent to the pilots by Rob Reid, the airline's senior vice-president of operations, suggested that lingering frustration among pilots over long-standing seniority issues may have also played a role in determining the vote.

"Through the ratification process, many pilots expressed their support for Air Canada acquiring these aircraft, but also conveyed concerns over pilot seniority issues which have been the subject of considerable negotiations, arbitration and Canada Industrial Relations Board deliberation," Mr. Reid wrote.

"There are clearly seniority issues to be resolved to the satisfaction of our entire pilot group and we will continue to support ACPA as they strive to achieve that outcome."

The pilot seniority question at Air Canada had its origins with the merger of Air Canada and the former Canadian Airlines. Among the merger's stickiest questions was how to combine the two pilot groups. Each maintained its own seniority list to determine which of its members were permitted to fly the biggest and, generally, highest-paying aircraft.

Woanders habe ich noch diese Aussage gefunden:
Air Canada, the country's largest carrier, must amend its contract with the pilots to take the new aircraft into account. The contract, which expires in 2009, links pilot wages to the size, speed, weight and revenue potential of the plane they fly, union President Kent Wilson said.

Und das hier auch noch dazu:
Press Release Source: AIR CANADA

Air Canada Notifies Boeing of Aircraft Order Cancellation Following Results of Pilot Vote
Saturday June 18, 10:25 pm ET

MONTREAL, June 18 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ - Air Canada said today that it has been informed by the Air Canada Pilots Association (ACPA) that the tentative agreement on costs and other issues relating to the Boeing order has been rejected by the union membership. ACPA leadership had recommended ratification of the tentative agreement which had been negotiated with the assistance of Mediator Mr. M.G. Mitchnik. The Company accepts the pilots' decision and has notified Boeing of the order cancellation.

The agreement with Boeing announced April 25 was subject to the successful completion of certain conditions including the negotiation of satisfactory terms by the airline with its pilots. The order is subject to cancellation without penalty.

"We are naturally disappointed at having to cancel the wide body aircraft order but these aircraft can only be brought into our fleet on a pre- determined economic basis. Despite best efforts on the part of ACPA, the agreement has been rejected," said Montie Brewer, President and CEO of Air Canada. "Following a successful restructuring, Air Canada has been transformed into a viable carrier. We cannot lose sight of the effort it took to get to where the airline is today and while the cancellation of this aircraft order will be disappointing to our employee group at large, including many of our pilots, it is the right decision given the circumstances.

"The cancellation of the order is not material to our business plan over the next few years. There is no longer a requirement for a cash outlay to secure the order and we will seek to find alternative aircraft (of types covered by the current collective agreement) in the used market for the three 777-300ER aircraft contemplated for 2006 delivery under this order (two for Q2/06 and a third during Q4/06). We will adjust our plans and it is anticipated that the company will continue to grow on an unaltered basis. The critical component of the Boeing order were the 787 aircraft scheduled for delivery in 2010 and beyond to replace our Boeing 767 fleet. In time we will re-address this requirement.

"I thank ACPA's leadership for their efforts to secure an agreement which would have allowed us to go forward with ordering new aircraft at this time. It is naturally my hope that in time we will find ways to bring new aircraft into the fleet in a manner acceptable to the company and our pilots," said Mr. Brewer.

The agreement with Boeing included firm orders for 18 Boeing 777s, plus purchase rights for 18 more, in a mix of the 777 family's newest models: the 777-300ER, the 777-200LR Worldliner , and the newly announced 777 Freighter. Air Canada's 777 deliveries were scheduled to begin next year with the arrival of three 777-300ERs in 2006. The renewal plan also included firm orders for 14 Boeing 787 Dreamliners, scheduled for delivery in 2010.

Montreal-based Air Canada provides scheduled and charter air transportation for passengers and cargo to more than 150 destinations on five continents. Canada's flag carrier is the 14th largest commercial airline in the world and serves more than 29 million customers annually.

Air Canada is a founding member of Star Alliance providing the world's most comprehensive air transportation network.

The statements made in this release concerning the Company's future prospects are forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties, which may prevent expected future results from being achieved. For those statements, we claim the protection of the safe harbour for forward-looking statements contained in the securities laws. The Company cautions that actual future performance could be affected by a number of factors, including regulatory change and competitive factors, many of which are beyond the Company's control. Therefore, future events and results may vary substantially from what the Company currently foresees. Additional information identifying risks and uncertainties is contained in the Company's 2004 Management's Discussion and Analysis (MD&A) and in other filings with securities commissions in Canada and the United States.

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BeitragVerfasst am: Do Jun 23, 2005 1:51 pm    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Emirates wird ihre Entscheidung, ob nun A350 oder doch B787, wohl auf der Flugschau in Dubai bekannt geben. Dauert also noch ein Weilchen.

Gruß Daniel
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BeitragVerfasst am: Fr Jun 24, 2005 3:45 pm    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

danke romeo mike... war mir so nicht bewusst... aber sehr sehr interessant. Nur verstehen ich dann noch nicht welche flugis die Air Can Piloten dann haben wollen damit sie besser bezahlt werden ? Ist für Boing natührlich ein herber Schlag ins Gesicht. Wollten die nicht sogar Ihre 346er verkaufen und dann für LR ganz auf Boing umstellen ?

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Tom
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BeitragVerfasst am: Fr Jun 24, 2005 3:51 pm    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Ich meine irgendwo gelesen zu haben dass die AC Piloten weiterhin Airbus haben wollen.
So groß ist ja die Wahl auf dem Markt auch wieder nicht, dass da viele Flieger zur Auswahl stehen. Wink
Eigentlich schade dass es MDD nicht mehr gibt und Lockheed sich nur noch auf Militärflieger konzentriert.
Von MDD hätte ich gerne die MD-12 (3 Decks, 1 Cargo, 2 PAX, ähnlich wie A380, etwas kürzer) gesehen und von Lockheed einen guten Tristar Nachfolger.
Aber schaun wir mal wie sich die Russen, sowie Embraer und Bombardier entwickeln, vielleicht kommt von denen ja auch eines Tages ein Flieger, der in Sachen Wirtschaftlichkeit etc. mithalten kann.
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BeitragVerfasst am: Fr Jun 24, 2005 8:34 pm    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Aber hallo, die Flieger von Embraer und Bombardier können wirtschaftl. ja wohl mal gut mithalten!
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BeitragVerfasst am: Fr Jun 24, 2005 9:09 pm    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Naja, die Prokopfkosten sind bei den Regiojets noch immer höher als bei einer 737 oder einem A320 mit prozentual gleicher Füllung.

Alles eine Frage der Betrachtung. Man kann mit mehr Kapzitäten zu niedrigeren Preisen, ebenfalls niedrigere Preise anbieten und somit den Bekanntheitsgrad erhöhen und mit guten Bonussytemen sich mehr Passagiere angeln.
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BeitragVerfasst am: Fr Jun 24, 2005 9:22 pm    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Das man mit größeren Flugzeugen mehr Profit erreichen kann, das ist klar! Auch, dass die Sitzmeilenkosten bei kleineren Flugzeugen höher ist, das ist auch klar. Aber ich finde, gerade die größeren Embraerjets 170, 175, 190, 195, sind sehr wirtschaftlich auf Strecken mit geringerem Passagieraufkommen einzusetzten. Auch gibt es einige Airlines. die gerade mit der 190 und der 195 alte 737 oder auch DC-9 ersetzen. Gerade letztere ist ja ein genauso groß wie die Embraers (DC-9-10er Reihe und DC-9-30, welche ja immer noch viel im Dienst steht).
Der Markt der 50 Sitzer dagegen, der ist fast aufgebraucht, u. a. auch, dass dank der hohen Sitzmeilenkosten (auch dank des teuren Jet A1) sich damit nicht mehr viel Geld verdienen lässt.
Aber die großen Embraers sind ja schon mal ne gute Basis um evtl. irgendwann nochmal eine größere Flugzeugfamilie darauf aufzubauen.
Was mit der neuen CSeries wird, dass muss man erst mal abwarten.
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